God is both 3 persons and 1 person. My first sermon covered the 1 person wall. This sermon goes over the 3 person wall. I also talk about some additional arguments and objections that are not covered in either my first sermon and trinity response video. The trinity is not a contradiction when it is about the nature of God.
Table of Contents
The trinity spectrum confusion
- The three positions
- explain why there is confusion, because there is overlap at the borders
- Whenever you argue for one wall, the opposing “position” assumes you are arguing for the position you share a wall with.
- My last sermon covered the 1person wall, so I do not sit in position 1. Today’s sermon will cover the 3persons wall and explain why I do not sit in position 3.
- Pastor Jimenez’s definition of trinity does not include the last one since his criteria is that the 3 must be 3 persons at a minimum, but mine does because the three in his trinity must be 3 separate identities, not three separate modes or functions.
- Google definition of “modalism”
- the doctrine that the persons of the Trinity represent only three modes or aspects of the divine revelation, not distinct and coexisting parts of the divine nature.
- Google definition of “person”
- a human being regarded as an individual.
- (in legal or formal contexts) an unspecified individual.
- an individual characterized by a preference or liking for a specified thing.
- a character in a play or story.
- an individual’s body.
- a category used in the classification of pronouns, possessive determiners, and verb forms, according to whether they indicate the speaker first person, the addressee second person, or a third party third person.
- each of the three modes of being of God, namely the Father, the Son, or the Holy Ghost, who together constitute the Trinity.
- a human being regarded as an individual.
Weak verses for position 3
Job 13:7 Will ye speak wickedly for God? and talk deceitfully for him?
Job 13:8 Will ye accept his person? will ye contend for God?
Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hebrews 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Hebrews 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Colossians 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Colossians 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Colossians 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
John 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
John 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
1 Timothy 6:13 I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;
1 Timothy 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1 Timothy 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1 Timothy 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
Weak verses for position 1
Luke 22:40 And when he was at the place, he said unto them, Pray that ye enter not into temptation.
Luke 22:41 And he was withdrawn from them about a stone’s cast, and kneeled down, and prayed,
Luke 22:42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
Matthew 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
Matthew 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
Mark 13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.
Mark 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1 Corinthians 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.
1 Corinthians 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1 Corinthians 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1 Corinthians 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1 Corinthians 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1 Corinthians 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
Revelation 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Revelation 5:7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
John 1:30 This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.
Luke 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
Luke 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Luke 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
Luke 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
John 8:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
John 8:18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
John 5:32 There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.
1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
1 John 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
Arguments for 3 persons
- how can i be something and with something at the same time (John 1:1)
- the use of plural word “us”
- use of the identifier “himself” and doing things not of himself
John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
John 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
John 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
John 16:15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
Is the Trinity a Contradiction?
- Not illogical for God to be two contradictory things
- Luke 18:27 And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.
- I’ve already explained How God’s nature is already various contradictory things
- Son of David/Lord of David
- Man/God – omnipresent, yet not, omipotent, yet not, omniscient, yet not.
- They accept God as 2 persons in 1, but not 3 persons within the Godhead as 1
- is there really 3 positions? Or are we just making 3 over the definition of essence, persons, components?
- Don’t want to say “Jesus is the Father” even though the 1 substance has 1 identity (1 God, none beside me)
- Don’t want to say “God is three persons” even though the 3 components have 3 identities (“our” “with” “not of himself”)